Psybertron Asks

Preamble?

How do I come to be writing this post right now?
See the Background “Postamble” at the bottom if necessary 😉

Straight Down to Business:

[START]

The Assertion – In one Sentence –

There are limits to science in the sense that some aspects of the world are beyond science.

(Or alternative prior statements in the background below – “there is more to the real (*1) world than science, some kinds of (real / worthwhile / valuable) knowledge – truths – of the world are more than science”)

The Argument – On one Page:

For now, we’re going to avoid arguing over definitions of words and things per se – and focus on the (multiple / variable / overlapping) criteria we use to distinguish between things (*2). We can come back to definitions when we need to record what if anything we think we’ve agreed. There is no point to dialogue / discourse unless we intend to progress and agree something (*3).

That said we will start with “orthodox” science, on the understanding that however I appear to use it here, implicitly or explicitly, it is moveable during the discourse (as it is under real life evolution of science itself). For now I’m seeing the orthodoxy being about predictable, repeatably observable, objectively measurable criteria either directly in terms of the objects of that science, or indirectly with logical relations between those and the observable objects. (Remember that’s just the distinction I’m making one side of the dividing line above, science itself – as a project and processes – definitively includes plenty of other human creativity, imagination and communication resources too.)

Also I’m talking here of the whole world as the natural world (*4) – everything known or conceived of in the world is natural, even supernatural fictions and myths are created by intelligent beings in the natural world. “Supernatural” effectively therefore means non-existent in the real world, we have no interest in them in this discourse other than as creations of minds in this world.

So as discussed above there are no attempts at definitive definitions in any of the blue, yellow, brown boxes, just descriptive statements. I’m sure we can all think of examples from our own experience, but maybe let’s just think of things that might be seen as subjective / spiritual / humanistic populating the brown box. We’re really focussing on that boundary.

Either there is a boundary, a distinction between what is science and what isn’t, OR you envisage everything subjective / spiritual / humanistic being accepted as being a valid part of an updated scientific orthodoxy. There are no other options. An exclusive or.

So if you go for the first option, that there must always be a dividing line between scientific and other knowledge, then you really ought to care about  the explanatory models for both sides and the nature of the relationship between the two – how they are interact or are related / integrated in real life.

Or, I contend, if you go for the option that simply applying – expanding – the term science to all knowledge, including the subjective (crossing Solms’ “Rubicon” completely), then equally you must care about the explanatory model that makes that so. If you don’t, by expanding your scientific criteria to encompass literally the whole world, you’re effectively saying “anything goes” when it comes to scientific criteria. It devalues the special case of scientific knowledge – it effectively says nothing to call knowledge scientific.

Any other option is denial or ignorance of the issue, or a retreat into the box that suits the practical aspects of your own life, which is fine as a personal choice, but gives you no resources to debate the boundary or what lies beyond.

Do Not Pass Go.

[END]

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*NOTES:

The notes can all be (and are) elaborated elsewhere, with references acknowledged, (there is nothing new under the sun, all writing is plagiarism at some level) but for now:

*1 – #OntologicalCommitment
We’re (hopefully, by intention anyway) only talking about the real world. But some of the things that are most fundamental to any world-view are the least well defined in practice. Even in science, time, mass, force, even causation are really only settled by convention. The truths of science are generally explanatory and predictive models of behaviour involving mathematical and often metaphorical objects, even if some of the metaphors eventually reify into reality. However much creativity, imagination and mathematical logic such truths and models involve, and however practically useful they are, the explanatory model is incomplete until properly evidenced assertion of that truth or theory can be followed by:

“and, for now,
that is how I believe
the world really is,
how it really works”

That’s stating the #OntologicalCommitment (after Goldstein). (Think Einstein’s rubber sheets for gravity, say. Quite a lot of science, especially some aspects fundamental physics are pretty well established at the mathematical and predictive / useful value level, but have still never achieved ontological commitment amongst their users, let alone wider public consciousness.)

*2 – #GoodFences
Even with most complex, systematic, apparently comprehensive (but never perfect) world models with a potentially infinite number of things and properties of / relationships between these, at any number of levels of abstraction, every distinction is binary. This not that. The point is not to divide the world – to be divisive – but to be able to recognise and account for all the relationships and processes in play. Every such dividing line or criterion, is one of many that will also intersect with many other, and is subject to revision, exception and re-evaluation. They are #GoodFences (after Robert Frost and G K Chesterton) not rigid barriers to progress. Some such divisions become historically significant, archetypes, ur-types, defining things that get named / symbolised in important theories and models that stand the test of time, but they may all exist in any discourse.

*3 – #RulesOfDiscourse
Beyond scientific, logical and mathematical rules that form causal and explanatory arguments within the evolving body of knowledge, the actual processes of developing and agreeing and evolving these, involves the full gamut of inter-subjective rhetoric, and there are many more rules of constructive behaviour, albeit rules that can be broken and evolved with creativity and good-faith. (See Rules of Engagement).

*4 – #Naturalism
It might seem natural to a scientist, to treat the whole world as the natural world, after all science was the name given to what was previously seen as natural philosophy. In fact it is a choice – a metaphysical choice – to nail nature to the mast, at the top of our edifice. The act of placing it in that position above all, against which we will judge the world and our knowledge of it, gives it paramount / overarching significance in our world view. To emphasise that some even dare to call it #SacredNaturalism. It’s a premise so deep – the turtle on which everything else stands – that to change one’s mind at this point would be more than a Kuhnian paradigm shift, everything would need to be re-written.

(*5 – #SomethingFromNothing
Our discourse above so far avoids any concern for the remaining fundamental question of why and how-come something / anything rather than nothing exists, or what the smallest “atom” of significant difference might be, something rather than nothing. Whether it’s even a meaningful question. But depending on where the discourse goes, the question might arise, so this is just-in-case a placeholder.)

(*6 – #PostPostModernism / #PoPoMo
Again not yet come up in the discourse above, so a just-in-case placeholder. People raising concerns for the brown box above in the context of validity of wider takes on knowledge would typically be branded Post-Modernists or plain weirdos in contrast with the de-facto received-wisdom of Modernists who see the whole as a scientification project. In reality we PoPoMo’s are aiming to reconcile and integrate the two.)

(*7 – #MonismOrDualism
Another just-in-case placeholder. There are many different possible monisms and dualisms, but anyone retreating into one box, may simply be saying the world is actually fundamentally and permanently divided between this box and the vestiges of other box, and it makes no sense to consider relationships between the two.

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Post Note: Continuing the original dialogue:

Dennis: My real strength is my experience of relating to and working with people of diverse cultures and mindsets.

Ian: And would you call that science?

Dennis: Absolutely not (laughs).

Ian: So in fact there is real, valuable humanistic stuff beyond science, some might call it wisdom?

QED.

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Background / Postamble:

I previously covered this topic – limits to science – pretty comprehensively albeit at a high level of abstraction in a presentation I gave to ISSS in November 2022 – it’s even highlighted in the bullets on the Agenda on page 3. (Now in January 2024, I’d probably update those two bullets under “Focus Mainly About Language” to include not just the ever expanding inconclusive talk on “new” or “definitive” systems definitions and methodologies, to add increasing talk of humanistic, subjective and/or spiritual aspects of systems that fail to connect with those listening in orthodox science mode.) A problem for an IS whose scope is SS – Systems Science(s).

Then at Teesside Skeptics in the Pub (TS-SitP) in December 2022, I delivered a talk entitled “Is Scientific Skepticism Enough” using just two slides and wrote it up as an 8-page “page” here on Psybertron. I’ve since shared the same piece on Academia.Edu as a putative paper, part of formalising more of my existing writing.

In the TS-SitP context at the time, it was a response to a topical question about what it means to “be” – to identify as – a Skeptic, and apart from the identity question, my main thrust was a plea that:

in championing scientific knowledge against ideology and pseudo-science and the like, Skeptics should beware falling into scientism, being ideologically committed to science being the only true answer to anything and everything.

(eg in that still current TS-SitP context / environment, in topical language, Anti-Woke is almost as bad as Woke).

The above includes the basic assertion that there is more to the real world than science, some kinds of (real / worthwhile / valuable) knowledge of the world beyond science. That assertion never goes away, in the sense it keeps cropping up in any debate about the world and our knowledge of it. So, following one such conversation a couple of nights ago, this post is a one page reworked extract of that paper focussing on just that assertion.

(More preamble on worldviews / prior-assumptions etc implicit in the above pieces? Better if read the post and ask questions?)

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Post Notes:

Taking the dialogue forward with ISSS and/or SitP?
(Past attempts noted above.)

ISSS Washington conference – maybe a paper or led-discussion workshop?

“Finding Language to join-up those with focus on the science and implementation technologies with those focussing on the humanistic (intuitive / tacit / spiritual / subjective) aspects of systems-in-action.”

Maybe seeing the International Society for Systems Sciences (ISSS) evolving to being the “International Society for Understanding Systems” (ISUS)

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Just a link holding post. Mentioned several times that I consider Tolstoy’s “Anna Karenina” a great piece of work, being about life, the universe, (God) and everything and yet have failed to get very far through his other famous tome.

Hat tip @RoseDiel for sharing this 2005 review of reading War and Peace by Laura Miller in Salon. Despite the obvious historical and fictional narratives, it’s clearly also about life, the universe and everything.

Me previously on Psybertron (2016):

Anna Karenina is one of those great works, like Tolstoy’s other magnum opus, that I must have started, even read up to a handful of chapters, half-a-dozen times. Already familiar with his “unhappy families” and even Vronsky at the horse race – but always too distracted to read on through the patronymics, familials and informals to actually get the point of greatness. And of course I must have seen two or three film and TV dramatisations over the years, not to mention the meme of recalling Anna everytime I’ve set foot on a snowy windswept railway platform, typically for some reason at Slependen, Oslo, in my memories. Meme upon meme.

I’ve just finished reading the Penguin Classics Pevear & Volokhonsky translation, whose cover blurb includes:

“[T]he vividly observed story of Levin, a man striving to find contentment and meaning to his life – and also a self-portrait of Tolstoy himself.”

We probably all know Tolstoy as a “devout Christian” and of course I’m an atheist, rationalist, humanist, so it would be easy to be prejudiced against Levin’s (ie Tolstoy’s) enlightenment. But it’s an enlightenment I feel I share.

I know in fact.

The word may translate as God, but it is God as in “the good” – no superhuman, supernatural, omniscient, omnipotent, causal agent here. Church too, but not as organised religion or ritualised superstition, simply as socially shared knowledge of the good. And knowing that it is good in the collective action of individuals and not in any disembodied rational conception of scientists and philosophers. Beyond words. Rationality is our most powerful tool, but love is greater, being neither thing nor tool.

Good philosophers know this. Good people enact it. “The good man Jesus and the scoundrel Christ” anyone? Jeez – even good humanists know this.

There’s a lot of agriculture and “what about the workers?” in Karenina. Oh, and – spoiler alert – sadly, Anna doesn’t make it through her paranoia. Too great for me to do it justice in any actual review or selection of quotes.

Simply, a great book.

So, on to “War and Peace“? Maybe after some writing.

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This is my third post of 2024 and the previous two already referred to my reading of Andrea Wulf’s “Magnificent Rebels“. The second of hers I’ve read, after “The Invention of Nature“. The connection between the two is the overlap of explorer / scientist Alexander von Humboldt, his brother Wilhelm and his wife Caroline intersecting with thinkers clustered in and around Jena and the German / Prussian “states” of the time. The intersection is impressive enough – Goethe, Fichte, Hegel, the Humboldts, Novalis, Schelling, Schiller, the Schlegels, Schleiermacher and Tieck – the union is frankly the whole of European, North and South American and Russian politics and thought in the arts and sciences – and government, in the aftermath of the French revolution. Think Napoleon, Jefferson, Bolivar, Emerson, Darwin … well-connected and influential to say the least.

I read “Magnificent Rebels“ to a conclusion about 4am one night, excitedly covered in post-it notes. The notes I’m extracting are for my philosophical / metaphysical purposes, and it’s hard to exaggerate how much momentous thinking happened in Jena. I originally said 1750-1850 (1749-1854 spanning their lives) but the action all happened in a decade from 1796 when the Schlegel’s arrived in Jena and 1806 when Napoleon rolled through.

I’m not going to have bandwidth for a full review, see previous reviews in the footnotes, so it’s back on the shelf for future reference alongside the other Humboldt book.

Just a couple of general historical observations.

Women and Marriage. What with the Holy Roman Empire and the myriad of little states and principalities each with their feudal hierarchical arrangements, the rules about who could marry who were culturally tangled well beyond the individuals involved. Ditto the rules for divorce. Perhaps therefore not surprisingly, many of the couples understood they weren’t married to the right person and had by mutual agreement open relationships with any number of lovers and partners, including coveting their brother’s/sister’s wives/husbands. Only social propriety – and the consequences of being caught rule-breaking – maintained discretion, but within the walls of “liberal” Jena, who cared? That the women “helped” their male partners with their thinking and writing, at the very least editorially if not co-authored was openly acknowledged in that liberal environment. Even when the whole was explicitly authored by the women and advertised as such by their men, only the men’s names made it through the wider publishing process.

Disease and Death (*). It was very easy to die in those days. Ignoring the ever-present violence of governance and war, and travel – on horseback, carriage or on foot (the distances they walked!) – the death of a child and/or the mother in childbirth, death of children who survived birth, death of anyone contracting any number of prevalent diseases we’d consider minor in the 21st C, were all a part of daily life. Medicine was crude and often more harm than good, infection hadn’t been recognised yet. They’d all better live their best life and produce their best work today, they might be dead tomorrow.

Amazing work done in Prussia / Germany before anywhere else UK, US or continental Europe under the most adverse conditions. Anyway, enough for now, a dozen other reads – inevitably – added to my virtual reading list, whilst I am still in writing-not-reading mode.

Both wonderful books by Andrea Wulf, highly recommended.

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Previously on Psybertron

“So this is 2024” (3/4/5 Jan 2024 – “Friday I’m In Love“) A round up on my resolved priorities for 2024, where my first mistake was to start reading “Magnificent Rebels“.

“2024 – Another day” (6 Jan 2024 – “Saturday I’m still in love“) ever deeper into “Magnificent Rebels”

“Humboldt – Pictures with Everything” (11 Sep 2023) My original reading of Wulf’s previous work “The Invention of Nature“.

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[Post Notes:

(*) Disease and death? A wonderful short clip of Jimmy Carr talking about how we in the 21stC never had it so good objectively, despite our subjective decline, AND using the word “memetic” to describe the problem! #Dysmemics

Reminder that we live in the best time in human history pic.twitter.com/NNw8TSr5Am

— Historic Vids (@historyinmemes) July 2, 2024

(I have a local copy if X/Twitter lets us down again.)]

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Saturday, I’m still in love.

Still suffering mildly from whatever this winter bug is, I’m continuing my reading of Andrea Wulf’s “Magnificent Rebels“, lazing around the house. It continues to be inspiring, deeply affecting and full of surprising and important content.

I’m allowing the reading to flow, making only mental notes – so we’ll mostly never see them again – allowing myself only occasionally to break off to make a note like this one. I’m about half way through the 350 page text (plus another 140 pages of end matter) as I type.

A whole chapter on the overlap of Alexander von Humboldt with Goethe doing proper empirical science with whatever was to hand in Jena – including their own bodies, but mostly frogs – before Humboldt’s globetrotting and the demands of the great and the good, which forms the subject of Wulf’s earlier “The Invention of Science” already much loved, so enough of that here.

And another on Fichte’s teaching methods – put me in mind of Pirsig, focussing on the stones in a stone wall in front of his students. Subject, meet object, then focus on subject, what you – your Ich / Self – see. (“The Invention of the Self” is Wulf’s subtitle to this work.)

For now, I am – wishfully, obviously – that man. Pirsig’s Phaedrus when I first expressed that thought  – or T E Lawrence when I first thought but never expressed it and at least a dozen more since – and in this case I’m Novalis (Friedrich von Hardenberg).

But first Shakespeare, who knew? Shakespeare was, and still is, much more important in German(y) than in English. August Wilhelm and Caroline Schlegel creating the translations that maintained the intended rhythm and meter of the original poetry – tapping out the rhythm on the table as they worked. August Wilhelm Schlegel’s “Lectures on Dramatic Art and Literature” contrasting the old classical rules with the new romantic art:

Shakespeare “closer to the secret of the universe …  the expression of original love … the quintessential romantic writer” [creative, rule-breaking writing which Voltaire considered ungrammatical and vulgar, the work of a drunken savage].

The German romantics – the Jena Set – were ahead of the British romantics who all read Schlegel. Coleridge lectured using him, and Wordsworth

[Schlegel] first taught us to think correctly concerning Shakespeare“. A neutral (American) commentator “[Schlegel] even for the English … was nothing less than … the discoverer of Shakespeare“.

Love is central, and rule breaking too, even both at the same time.

Schlegel also commented on Novalis – eventually recovering from the grief of lost love Sophie 110 days earlier – herself the subject of a whole chapter on surviving multiple gruesome anaesthetic-free liver surgeries and appearing to be on the road to recovery – Novalis slowly returning to reality:

“His style of writing had changed – His sentences became shorter and more aphoristic, He replaced commas, semicolons and full stops with em-dashes – lines for thinking – pauses for breath and thought – He thinks elemental – His sentences are atoms.“

One of my (annoying) writing affectations too, em-dashes ignoring the proper rules of punctuation, and use of scare quotes mixed with italic and bold emphases to highlight key objects (and subjects). The atoms are simply network nodes or vertices, the relations, the em-dashes, the edges are where all the action is. The life, loves and death.

More writing inspiration to add to that from Rushdie yesterday [Post Note] and – oh look – his next, second chapter “Proteus” is about … Shakespeare.

Reading on, Napoleon permitting.

[Final Round-up of Wulf’s Magnificent Rebels here.]

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After a large family Christmas and a few days away over New Year, just the two of us in Ireland, I’m back at the desktop using more than my thumb-sized brain system.

The Divine Comedy were excellent in Dublin, outdoors on Friday 29th, on form with strings and brass backing to a great selection of favourites, and we struck it lucky with the stormy weather. Whenever we were out in both Dublin and Cork / Cobh we managed to (mostly) avoid the rain. Pubs, food and drink were the order of the days and Ireland failed to disappoint. Several previous haunts revisited, Kelly’s and Ryan’s in Cobh, but name checks to three new venues for us this time. The Quays in the Temple Bar area of Dublin, The Shelbourne in Cork’s Victorian Quarter and The Parnell off the top of O’Connell Street in Dublin. Sure, they all cater to tourist area custom, but the Irish hospitality simply works.

I already posted my “Resolution” back in November and thinking time observing the world from a couple of weeks R&R has reinforced things, despite the fact mentioned in post-notes to that resolution that (two) new commitments have arisen. One to help with a new Skeptical Freethought (S) initiative in the wake of the woke-capture of traditional skeptic / rationalist / humanist activities and a second to support our local Marske United (M) football team through a financial crisis.

T, the Technical Thesis remains the top priority, followed by F and D, the fictional narrative and the doctoral research. D essentially on hold until T is done by summer 2024.

P, the Robert Pirsig Association has slipped behind both S and M as a result of disappointing lack of responses or initiatives from North America which really ought to be its centre of gravity. My Pirsig involvement can only be the sustainable long-term archive and any specific help requested by others initiatives. I simply do not have the bandwidth or motivation to organise remotely in the climate experienced so far.

So priorities are T at the top, then D, F, S, M and bottom of the pile, P.

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Even with T at the top – originally as per Pirsig’s “Stop reading and just write something!” – I find myself with new reading contributing to T, D & F. After Andrea Wulf’s mind-blowing historical biography around Alexander von Humboldt, I received as a Christmas gift her “Magnificent Rebels” which turns out to be equally wonderful on the German “first romantics” clustered around Jena from around 1750 to 1850. Lots of people on hold on my reading list will have to be re-activated. Goethe, Coleridge and Kant most conspicuously, but also Fichte, Hegel, Novalis, Schiller, Schelling, Schlegel and Schleiermacher demanding attention once more.

And, three new linked posts from A J Owens over at Staggering Implications that look interesting enough to read: Metaphysics and the Overton Window:

• • • Part I – A Fellow Traveller
      (Beyond the Postmodern Mind: The Place of Meaning in a Global Civilization, by the philosopher and theologian Huston Smith)
    • Part II – Definitional Differences
    • Part III—Rounding Up The Usual Suspects
      (You’ll never guess who. Post-Post-Modernism is the only sane position in the 21st C)

And finally for today – some bonkers X/Twitter exchanges with people suggesting the idea we think with our brains is not an empirically accepted fact (!) – irrespective of our physicalist and/or relational and/or panpsychist/idealist metaphysical positions. Prompted by Philip Goff tweet. Some people delight in making stuff more mysterious than in it is – gives philosophy (and neuro-philosophy) a bad name. Jeez!

If you mean to say that you don’t think with your brain, I will admit that this indeed explains a lot.

— Sabine Hossenfelder (@skdh) January 3, 2024

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Post Notes: A bit lazy / under-the-weather after the busy “holiday” – no doubt some winter bug picked-up along the way – so reading more than writing again!

Andrea Wulf’s “Magnificent Rebels” continues to enthral. Deeply researched – clearly including manually reading through physical archives of otherwise unpublished notes and correspondence – yet written beautifully in the imagined voices of the participants as their narrator without labouring too many exact quotations that don’t fit the narrative flow. 99% of notes, quotes and references non-intrusive as page-numbered end notes. Beautiful and witty read as well as the rich historical and philosophical content. Friday, I’m in love, again.

A few political cybernetics distractions arising in social media as ever, one of which reminded me I’d forgotten an earlier reference to Salman Rushdie’s “Languages of Truth – Essays 2003 to 2021” – not even on my wish-list(?) – so I dived in and acquired a Kindle copy for now. Needless to say beautifully and wittily written. I’ve only read the first of two sections of the first chapter of Part 1 of 4 parts which appear to contain 40 odd chapters in total(!). So a second level interrupt to the original distraction, but directly relevant to my task. Absolutely confirming my decision to go for a fictional narrative version of “my book” and full of advice of how and why. “Don’t write what you know” that’s boring, unless it’s not.  Marvellous stuff. Inspiring.

Continuing with Wulf’s “Magnificent Rebels” …

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For me, for decades, the idea that (even scientific) truths always have a political dimension has been central to my epistemic agenda. Not that science was my specific target, more the general orthodoxy that logically-positive objective-determinism presumes to fully explain the truths of real-world causation. And I’ve said so from my perspective as a science-educated geek, with my heroes in science and a long career in physical engineering and management systems.

The cause celebre when I first took to seriously researching the nature of the problem was the post-9/11 2001 “God vs Science” wars of the New Atheist movement. [More in “previously” footnotes.] I was instinctively against that movement and its four horsemen from the start (even as a fan of Dan Dennett’s philosophical thinking), which lost me a few friends, but my agenda hasn’t changed. That “too easy” communications of electronic media generally, short-circuits systemic complexity and reduces all topics to simplistic false-binary choices within the first few exchanges. So binary that having chosen sides the other is simply denied or cancelled, and that the narratives-in-mind are so entrenched and reinforced, change cannot even be countenanced.

The antithesis of reasonable discourse and the enemy of any kind of truth, objective or otherwise.

Since 2015, from my UK perspective, the exemplary case became the Gender-wars, and still is for me but with a growing background of DEI, BLM, de-colonialism, you name it, any “critical-theory”-supported positive discriminations not just in favour of perceived victimised minorities, but positively demonising their respective majorities, even where prejudiced discriminations may be as much historical as current or institutionalised. There’s always been a name for this – “tyranny of the minority” – it’s just that wokeness is forever discovering new minority interests to champion tyrannically.

Two things happened yesterday and today to prompt that musing.

The first was a strange Twitter thread from Peter Boghossian that anti-woke was now some kind of bandwagon attracting newcomers that had failed to take it seriously, now that it was somehow risk-free to do so? Boghossian was previously involved on two different sides of this from my perspective. With his Street Epistemology in the original god vs rationality wars and as part of the University of Austin anti-woke academic venture. [More in “previously” footnotes.] And whilst there have been encouraging signs of progress, there are also active cases of livelihood-threatening “cancellation” in academia and in employment happening right now. Far from risk free. Boghossian represents the polarising anti-woke side to the woke problem. Still “part of the problem” for me. A pox on both their houses.

The second was the incredibly moving documentary about the George Floyd case that created the BLM and Defund-Institutions poisonous streak in the whole woke cultural tragedy. Firstly this interview with John McWhorter of Columbia University and New York Times talking about the documentary, followed by the film itself.

As McWhorter comments, whatever the selective biases in the legal and documentary-making processes, you can’t fail to be moved by the humanity of those branded by the woke as the bad guys.

And finally, as a reminder, so many of these woke fallacies are couched in the language of rights of oppressed minorities in complete disregard of the rights of the rest of us, let’s remember that today is Universal Human Rights day. Many people sharing this image of Eleanor Roosevelt – who was “cancelled” as too radical, from speaking at Montana State University when Robert Pirsig was teaching there:

What goes around comes around.
There is very little new under the sun.

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Previously on Psybertron:

Mar 2003 Dawkins Hyper-Rationalism
(First time – after several positive readings of Dawkins – I spotted where he was going wrong. And a few days later “Stalled a bit recently in reaction to “hyper-rational” rants by Rand (objectivist) and Dawkins (scientist) which boiled my blood and knocked my confidence a bit. Picked-up Nietzsche’s “Beyond Good and Evil” … and the rest is now history.)

Jun 2007 Dawkins vs God – one of many posts about Dawkins’ “The God Delusion” and equivalent works of his “horsemen” colleagues. Most of my thoughts are embedded as comments in a critique of Dawkins book by a vicar / theologian.

Sept 2015 Galileo’s Middle Finger by Alice Dreger
(My first encounter with Sex / Gender ambiguity as political ideology.)

Oct 2015 Street Epistemology – a curate’s egg.
(It’s just the Socratic Method, with its limitations and drawbacks. Part of the reason I came to formalise better “Rules of Engagement” beyond naïve interpretation of Socrates and other rules & methodologies.

Nov 2021 Follow The Money? – Or does the money follow them?
(Kathleen Stock and Peter Boghossian go to Austin. With an interesting comment thread on developments. Forget “the money” per se, but also picking-up on the recurring factor that naturally left/liberal/social sources have much greater difficulty acknowledging woke issues than right/libertarian/capitalists to – so it gets cast as some right-wing conspiracy. One of several Catch-22’s driving degenerate polarisation.)

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[PS – Hat Tip to Dicky Fisher for a recent “good example” of the Street Epistemology” Socratic method process in a Gender ideology context. Will add notes when reviewed.]

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If you are a visual programmer, I would fund your creation of a visual modelling tool. Working title – “The Whole World on One Page”. Outline as follows:

• • • Functionally – a bit like a “Mind Mapping” or “Network Visualisation” tools – visually navigating links between content objects-in-focus page views.
    • Architecturally – supporting the basic principles of the IDEF0 (old) diagramming language, with navigation behaviour between content views according to the semantics of different content link types.
    • Approach – extension using Open API’s to any existing Mind-Mapping products (many out there) and/or IDEF0 tools (like MS-Visio, Archimate or similar). Terms – Open Software (or alternatives considered). App or Browser based
    • Specification – scope and function described in pseudo-code natural language. No use-cases. Select Templates, Create / Edit / Save and View / Navigate modes.

Contact for elaboration / written specification.
Share on any appropriate developer channels.

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Johnnie Moore is someone I’ve followed as long as I’ve been blogging – in the original “blogroll” over 20 years ago, though to my shame I’ve very rarely mentioned him, and I think I’ve attended a session with him only once – way back when. More than once in a previous life I’ve been close to recommending him as an alternative “creative facilitator” after decades of same-old, same-old “workshops” – whether team-building or problem solving. More recently his less-is-more style under the “unhurried” banner.

Even more minimalist recently he’s been doing ~2 minute “unpolished” videos – each with one simple but often counter-intuitive message. Prompted to share this one.

Knowledge Overwhelm
– Are you aware of the shadow your knowledge casts on people around you?

I recognise the problem. On top of 30 plus years of regular experience and 20 plus years of intense research, almost every piece of writing is connected to every other, it’s always possible to say more, even when asked what appears to be a simple question person to person. Equally obviously, even recognising the keep it simple adage, focussing on one point at a time, the tendency is to coin very dense summaries of the wider complex whole, but then the language itself begs to be explained, assuming the listener / reader hasn’t already moved on.

[aim] to create a more emotional connection …
and not to lean over much into explanation.

we get more of our insights …
in these small exchanges

I think he’s right.

I know I am going to have to write “my thesis” out in full, but that’s nothing to do with expecting it to be communicated by being read and understood. No that’s a more selfish act of clarifying what it is I’m trying to say for myself.

Communication – as suggested by Bruce McNaughton in a recent post – is closer to a “handshake“.

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“The Way of Systems” is maybe not a phrase I would choose. Religious connotations of “the way” (Christian as well as Buddhist) seem unnecessary baggage to lead with, even though I clearly see universal value in systems thinking.

But nevertheless, whenever one is looking to improve on the “orthodox scientism” of western rationality all roads have led back to eastern (oriental or aboriginal) world views ever since the pre-Socratics. Take Pythagoras for example, despite our lasting association with his maths and geometry. Talk about “footnotes to Plato”. Nothing new under the sun, so I won’t attempt a summary of every reference since. Suffice to say, even the fundamental physicists of the Schrödinger and Heisenberg vintage had a lot to say about eastern perspectives. If we skip across the whole post-modern dive into the occult and our balanced PoPoMo recovery from that, I’ll mention just two more recent. Pirsig and his 1974 “Zen and the Art …” is an obvious milestone on my own thought journey (though not until 2002 in my case, after his 1991 “Lila”) and Iain McGilchrist’s “The Matter With Things” most recently. Similarly now in our PoPoMo times, “mindful” practice has become respectable having been seen as “alternative lifestyle” material during the PoMo trough.

It’s about recognising the value of embodied and directly experienced “knowledge” alongside and integrated with more formal language models of which science is the pre-eminent example. Essentially “The Way” as the Tao of Zen Buddhism – the journey is the reality that happens to us if we pay attention, whereas the destination, the objective reality, is never fully attained even as a symbolic best-approximation intellectual model. The way is also very much aligned with a process view of the world rather than things in the world.

I say all this because of another name I came across only yesterday in the dialogue I mentioned with Bruce McNaughton – fellow-traveller  systems-thinker. That person is Gene Bellinger, who I know no more about than his web-page. Like Bruce’s and early versions of mine, Gene’s old-school hand-crafted html with links to Powerpoint and Word PDF’s. (In fact he and Russell Ackoff have a number of old YouTube recordings too.)

Gene’s work is “The Way of Systems“ and indeed his archetypes of different (sub)-system types within his Systems of Systems (SoS) model are The Way of … each topic. In fact his use of archetypes is something I’ve been driving at before. I’m very much staying in my own lane in abstract space, so I’m always at a conceptual level or several levels removed from real individual systems or things. Within that network of multiple overlapping hierarchical and heterarchical typing (and typing-by-association) relations, there are some nodes – types – of special significance independent of the many detailed relations and features of the specific real-world individuals. Archetypes.

The East-West meme above is itself an archetype, for any number of detailed classification divisions (which are all individually binary #GoodFences). Of significant value even though not a specific – definitive – thing in the real world.

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[Post Notes:

Gene Bellinger’s latest consolidated work is available here, presented as a “Brain” mind-map.

And, that “Stealth Modelling” node looks fascinatingly close to my diagramming interests, with a side order of the shadow of knowledge?

And, see AJ’s comment below. The Archetypes may be closely related to the sacred, the “Ur Nodes” as in Sacred Naturalism. I love it when a plan comes together.]

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Progress on Priorities

A strangely productive week since my previous “Resolution” post – I’m obviously focussed on the right priorities at last.

Namely getting my “technical content” better organised for review. Started using free versions of Academia.edu and Orcid.org – posting some of my key (older and/or half-drafted pages and pdf’s – mostly just testing it out so far). Not a matter of being at no cost, but free from any required prior-association with an academic journal or academic institution (yet) – see Resolution above.

Already on the next step of targeting sets of key posts to be turned into more formal papers, properly referenced and referenceable. Onward and upward.

Nevertheless, Productive Distractions

Despite the above, also some admin & distractions, although they’re all grist to my mill. Dialogues with fellow travellers are always welcome for clarifying trains of thought, mine and hopefully theirs. I already mentioned Anatoly Levenchuk recently – in that Resolution post in fact – but also:

Bruce McNaughton of ISSS on distinctions between my meta-language / architectural-abstraction view of a “systems thinking ecosystem” and his deeply researched ontology for a generic systems thinking model. We have similar but different histories and have read similar but different sources and at different times / in a different order in our thought journeys. My focus is to abstract the essence as an intellectual model, his is to define the best working model. Fascinating on so many dimensions. Not least that even where we’ve not read the same people on a topic – say Antonio Damasio and Fritjof Capra vs Iain McGilchrist and Mark Solms – they / we have so many of the same underlying sources both proximal and original. Same stuff different words. (See “language”!)

We both have a strong focus on “information interfaces” at system boundaries, but Bruce’s ontology has an interesting take on communication as “social coordination” – more than one-way transmission of data – commune (verb and noun) and community (abstract and concrete noun) about the interaction and “coordination”. That intersubjective process is pretty much the root of process-based metaphysics. (Two-way like a “handshake” establishing both syntactic and semantic shared understanding of the – quality – communication event.)

And, for example – Bertalanffy’s seminal (1986) “General Systems Theory” (GST) I’d not previously noticed that Chapter 10 refers extensively to Benjamin Whorf (1925-1940) “Language, Thought and Reality” – someone I have referred to positively before. And in that same context, in the post by Ted Lumley, Ernst Mach recurred – his “principle” that is. He understood the “Habitat-Dynamic” – the two-way causal processes between organism and ecosystem – co-evolving. And despite our common association of Mach with physical engineering “mechanics”, he wasn’t talking about just mechanical systems, he meant the psychical (thinking) habitat too – so I’m now reading “The Analysis of Sensations – and the Relation of the Physical to the Psychical” (Ernst Mach, originally 1885, 5th Ed translated and extended by Williams and Waterlow, 1914). Mindblowing. Gotta stop reading!

Whorf and Mach, like Pirsig and McGilchrist since, understood the relationship between language and our experience of the world. Those “aboriginal” societies who paid direct attention to the world they experienced not only had quite different languages (architectural form as well as content-wise) they had, and because they had, quite different world-views in mind. Such shared world-views form our thinking and communicating ecosystems. Quite different to our “western” intellectual symbolic models. [Note my title “Attention as a Moral Act” comes from the McGilchrist stable, and Morals / Values are fundamental to Pirsig’s Quality Metaphysics.]

And so many other connections / associations. “Strangely” in the title of Damasio’s latest, doesn’t include Doug Hofstadter – what’s that about? Habitat (English) = Cynefin (Welsh). Lila (published) = “Them Pesky Redskins” (non-PC working title).

Mach’s references (in just the first few prefatory and introductory pages) =  Alfred Binet, W K Clifford, Wolfgang Pauli, David Hume, Rudolf Willy,  Immanuel Kant, Baruch Spinoza, Johann Goethe and many more. Mach was no slouch! Ernst Mach Society = Vienna Circle, would have had Mach turning in his grave at their (orthodox, objective, determinist) “scientism”, like Wittgenstein, only he wasn’t dead yet. Ask Hofstadter!

Nothing new under the sun, yet again.
Dysmemics has been around long before electronic comms.
Attention as a moral act.

Anyway, to conclude, also a very brief (Facebook) chat with Mark Hammonds – noticing Jacob Bronowski’s “Ascent of Man” re-available this year on BBC iPlayer. A hero of mine much referenced here, led me to retrace some of his many links, including those to “Systems Thinking” and shared with fellow traveller David Deutsch. Some pretty good stuff – if I say so myself – I should be writing-up formally, per resolved priorities above, not least by way of example: “An Injection of Optimism“.

Stay in Touch?

And finally, good news – dlvr.it now has access to the BlueSky API, so as of today, all my Psybertron posts are shared directly on Twitter/X, Mastodon, Discord and BlueSky. (dlvr.it is a fantastic service and still free for one personal source with up to ten feeds) Nobody even opens emails these days(!), and relatively few enthusiasts use WordPress account notifications, so follow @psybertron on any of these.

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Inevitably some immediate post-notes:

Topical today two social-media items questioning the linguistic science confusion. Science is a language, but linguistics is (maybe) not science.

Anita Leirfall sharing “What is the Science of Linguistics a Science of?“
by Ermanno Bencivenga in Epoch Magazine – starting from from Thomas G. Bever’s “The Cognitive Basis for Linguistic Structures” and quite independently:

A J Owens sharing this in his latest “oblique review” blog

“Human beings do not live in the objective world alone. . . but are very much at the mercy of the particular language which has become the medium of expression for their society. The worlds in which different societies live are distinct worlds, not merely the same world with different labels attached.”
Edward Sapir, “The Status of Linguistics as a Science”

So on message that quote! [Countering the (solely) objective world (alone) but therefore overstates the “at the mercy of” on the other side – these things co-evolve with two-way causation – but the basic point holds. As a PoPoMo, the common sense of post-modernism without the extremes. After the comment from AJ below (and my comment on his) I need to follow-up with Tina Lee Forsee at “Diotima’s Ladder” I guess.]

And:

[For any word I use] meaning is amenable to reasonable guesses; and for the most part, these guesses will not be far off the mark.

That we understand one another by making reasonable guesses is a claim at the heart of the book. The main author, Neal Weiner, calls this “the principle of generosity,” extrapolating slightly from the noted philosopher Donald Davidson’s “principle of charity.”

Absolutely – I use that principle of charity (see Rules of Engagement) and yes, like Dennett [and Levenchuk] I say “hold your definitions” – use words like they’re natural language and make progress in your discourse – only worry about definitions when (and if) you need to create some objective record of agreements.

And more on different world-views giving us different ways of thinking, Nigel McGilchrist, brother of Iain, talking on:

The Mind of Pythagoras: A First Bridge Between East and West – How did we come to think the way we do?

And finally for now, not so obviously on topic, but Philip Ball writing “Is AI leading to a reproducibility crisis in science?” in Nature Magazine – Scientists worry that ill-informed use of artificial intelligence is driving a deluge of unreliable or useless research. On topic because these AI’s are merely LLM’s. (No A-Life, no A-Intelligence, I say.)

“As with any powerful new statistical technique, AI systems can make it easy for researchers looking for a particular result to fool themselves…”

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And some post-post-notes:

Mentioned some different reads / same sources in the dialogue with Bruce above.

Fritjof Capra – I read “Tao of Physics”, “Turning Point” and “Hidden Connections” – but never read his latest “Systems View of Life”. Basically I saw him as catching up with the rest of us systems-thinking-wise, though obviously he already had a long-standing Zen-Buddhist alternative to orthodox “western” angle. (Turns out Bruce helped Capra with his glossary for training purposes.)

Antonio Damasio – I’ve read and listened to and he’s massively referenced by both Iain McGilchrist and Mark Solms – a well established part of the Austin-to-Zeman “lesion literature”. Big in the “Homeostasis” space too, but until recently resistant to “systems thinking” talk as too mechanical. Sounds like he too has caught up with systems thinkers in his latest “The Strange Order Of Things: Life, Feeling and the Making of Cultures” and like McGilchrist is now joining individual person processes to the cultural level. And like Solms latching on to feeling as the true measure of consciousness, it’s affect all the way down. I have a kindle copy – all the usual sources – so I may review briefly.

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